Breakdown - A Gravity Forms Podcast

[00:00:00] 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.
Hey Cole, welcome back to Breakdown.
Cole: Hey Matt. How you doing?
Matt: Hey, not bad. It's, uh, it's, well, it feels like it's not officially summertime yet, but it feels like it today. It's like 90. Oh, gonna be like 90 degrees and uh, I'm not a heat guy. You know, I don't really love the heat. I don't know about you.
Cole: Yeah, I would say, uh, maybe not the heat, but I do love the sun.
I'm actually, I'm calling in from, from Malta right now, which is dead center of the Mediterranean. And, uh, coming from Canada, it's, it's a complete contrast. So it's, uh, it's sunny every day here. The heat's gonna slowly pick up, [00:01:00] but we're, I'm not sure exactly what 90 degrees translates to, but we're getting the, in the, in the upper thirties pretty quick here.
And so, uh, yeah, I'm very white. So it's gonna be interesting.
Matt: Cole Frazier is, uh, what, what I call the, uh, the marketing lead at Gravity Whiz. You guys have been on the show before. Obviously, so many folks know Gravity Whiz that are listening to this podcast. Last time when you had you on, we talked a lot about ai.
I suspect we'll talk about some of that AI stuff today. Um, but Gravity Whiz has been sort of like reshaping. Their offering. I mean, I'll let you fill in their lines, but reshaping how people get, uh, plugins and add-ons from Gravity. Whiz, you had some recent announcements, um, some new things coming to the dashboard of WordPress websites.
What do you have going on in the last few months over at Gravity Whiz?
Cole: Yeah, it's been busy, man, so we've been working pretty, pretty hard on our Gravity Connect Suite, putting out a couple products there. Uh, gravity Perks as well. But one of the big undertakings for us in this quarter was. [00:02:00] Spell book, which is kind of a re-imagining, and also just like a long overdue, almost like admin project that ended up taking on this complete shape of its own.
But basically, you know, previously when Gravity was started, you know, 12 years ago, it was served outta this Gravity Perks plugin, which was the core suite that we offer. And that has evolved, uh, considerably since then. And so now we have three product suites. And so basically spell book was about removing that, changing it to this one central, you know, consolidated plugin that we're gonna use for, uh, serving all of our plugins going forward.
And so now you have this kind of one place within the WordPress dashboard dashboard where you have unified licensing, you know, plugin management and then plugin discovery. Um, and we're also adding free plugins to that, uh. As we go. So the idea is, you know, in, in addition to it kind of streamlining just the process of dealing with all of our plugins, you know, getting updates from one central place, hopefully we can start to put more plugins in there and turn it into a bit of a discovery engine for additional offerings we have.
'cause [00:03:00] we have, you know, dozens and dozens of free products as well.
Matt: Alright, so Gravity Perks, gravity Connect, gravity Shop, the Snippet Library. Is that included in spell book?
Cole: Not yet. Uh, we got big plans for spell book, but right now what you'll see is the three licenses, or sorry, the three suites, and then you'll see free plugins as a separate tab as well.
So currently I think we have, uh, eight or nine of our kind of highest performing free plugins in there, which includes stuff like, you know, our free open AI connection, stuff like that. Uh, but we do have plans to continue adding to that.
Matt: Gravity perks at some point, I would imagine some of those perks are gonna turn into full plugins.
There's a lot of like amazing features. I mean, they are, I guess you would consider like the tech, the technical person would say yes. Those are, they are plugins. Yes, they are plugins. But at at what point do you start to explore. Pulling out these, these add-ons from the Perks library and then turning them into something greater [00:04:00] like you did with Gravity Connect.
Um, are those things on the docket now to be like, okay, we're gonna start to extract some of these from Perks. Is, does spell book open that opportunity up to you?
Cole: It's super interesting, man. 'cause there's definitely been a lot of internal discussions about this. Another example of this would actually be Gravity Shop, which is a separate suite that's focused on WooCommerce.
And so that was the actual. I'd say the first time we've made that decision to separate something outta the Gravity Perks Suite prior to Gravity Connect, and it really does come down to this question that we're kind of having internally of like what makes a perk a perk, right? The idea when, you know David started Gravity Perks was.
Basically these kind of little tiny form additions that would help, you know, improve UX or provide a very specific function. But the idea was it was very finite in scope and it was centered around one simple thing. And then as we've progressed, these offerings have become a lot more complex and can do just a lot more.
You know, these plugins have become these full fledge, as you've said, you know, kind of separate. Features that people use. And I think the biggest testing of this is [00:05:00] going to be the next release that we have coming up, actually, which is, I don't wanna say too much about it, um, but it's, it's called GP Bookings and it's a full fledged booking suite.
It's gonna be, you know, considered, I guess, you know, potentially part of the Gravity Perks suite. But when you look at this, and when we're talking about it, you know, demoing it internally, this thing is its own. Product and it doesn't really deserve, you know, in a good way, it, it deserves to be much better than the Gravity Perks Suite.
So, um, I think as these get more complicated, we're gonna have to find solutions to manage that and see how we want to tackle it. But right now, the three product suites are working pretty well for us. Uh, specifying just, you know, the form add-ons kind of vibe with Gravity Perks and then the integrations kind of concepts with Gravity Connect and then WooCommerce with Gravity Shop.
Matt: I'm curious from like the, the marketing. Perspective. And, um, you know, again, folks listening to this, if they, if they haven't like, caught up with any of this news, like maybe it's been a while since you've looked at what Gravity Whiz has been up to, um, the connect suite [00:06:00] of tools. I'm wondering if that just like the act of saying, you know what, we're going to package all of our like, connect add-ons into the, into the suite of, of.
You know, under the umbrella of Gravity Connect. I wonder if that has inspired people to go, oh, I, I never thought of it that way. I need a connect to this service over here, or that service over there. Was that a surprise at all? Uh, for the team to be like, oh. We were just trying to like bucket these features into like a brandable, you know, use case.
But now maybe your customers are looking at it going, gee, I never really thought of it as like a suite of connections. Is that at all popped up in your conversations with customers? I.
Cole: I think, I wouldn't say that I've seen it super present in the conversations. I feel like because we launched it as Gravity Connect, and you know, the core value proposition has always been like, just integrate gravity forms with cool stuff.
You know? I feel like this has been like just super clear that that's the angle we want to come from, but I. The, uh, some of the backstory with [00:07:00] Gravity Connect is actually that we launched Google Sheets. The first connection is part of the Gravity Perks Suite, and then we noticed that there was so much demand for that.
And then through those conversations with Google Sheets, uh, we, you know, we kind of keep a, a centralized place for feature requests and. Plugin requests and stuff like that. And so the conversations around Google Sheets, obviously it was very popular, but then we saw that through those conversations, people were like, Hey, like what about this?
What about this? What about this? Can you do notion? Can you do ai? Can you do, uh, Airtable was a common one that we did recently. So I think through that, uh, you know, what was originally a perk, we saw that there actually was a huge demand for specifically integrating. Gravity forms with a bunch of services, and I think that's where the idea sparked from.
Matt: We, we did a, uh, webinar, the Gravity Forms team did a webinar if you want to about ai. Uh, and if you want to catch it, it's learn. You can go to learn.gravity.com/webinars to catch the, the replay. We showed [00:08:00] off some of the stuff that, uh, your team and, and others have done in the space for. Uh, AI add-ons. So let's talk about it because everybody must talk about AI these days.
What kind of, uh, request or what kind of, uh. You know, use cases or features. What are the people saying to you about AI alongside your connect tool and Gravity forms? Uh, I'm of the mindset based on that webinar that we did, is that people are still very early on with this stuff. And when, when you folks like you and I are living and breathing this day to day, like I feel like, man, have I missed the boat?
Like, yeah, have I missed the boat on ai? But then when I get into, you know, the real world with air quotes, I find that. People are still like very early on, there's a lot, a lot of people who are still very early on with this when you can feel like the world is passing you by. So what are people doing with your AI tools?
How are people reacting to it? What's the general sense of AI and gravity wiz?
Cole: It's definitely [00:09:00] something I'm thinking about a lot, especially in the context of. As you said, someone who's using AI a lot myself, I'm like, how is this gonna come for form building as a whole? And like, how is, how can AI really interact with that process?
And I think about how like, like, you know, this, this quote software is eating the world. I, I feel like right now it's like AI software and natural language software is eating the software world. It's like every, you know, co uh, company and their cousin has. A release centered around ai and so I'm like thinking about how this might impact what we do at some point in time, but looking at what our customers are doing, it's, it still seems to be.
Using data submitted through forms and then interacting with AI in some way to enhance that process for the end user. I would say that feels like a really strong use case for us still. Um, so, you know, someone's filling out a form in real time and then there's, you know, an aggregate of data. It's some point in that process and then using AI at some step in there [00:10:00] to, you know, maybe help consolidate the information or, you know, organize it in a way, but it still feels very rudimentary.
In comparison with, you know, I guess I'd say probably some of the use cases that you and I have with AI right now. But again, like I'm thinking about how you can use these applications right now where they, they ship a new feature and it's, you know, maybe AI centered and it's. It's still not that good.
You know? I feel like just, again, like all these companies are shipping AI features really quickly and they're leaning into it a lot. And then I still see that it's maybe not it, it's almost like they're doing it to, you know, let's say like increase shareholder value or, or give the perception of that there are, you know, part of this AI world.
And so I'm trying to think of how. You know, we can do that in a meaningful way in the WordPress space with forms without it being like a, just a poor feature. And right now the Gravity Connect opening I plugin has been the best for that. And I feel like it's still just interacting with data submitted through forms.
But ultimately I'm wondering [00:11:00] where that's gonna go because I see like there are players, you know, in our space right now, um, and it's really cool to see what they're doing. But they have, you know, let's say solutions around like form building ai. So you can like. You know, kickstart the process of like, describing what you're doing to what you're trying to accomplish with the form, and then have AI kind of like build that for you more or less.
But I feel like this is still when I, so for example, when I, you know, communicate with, with our customers about our spotlight, and I wanna, the spotlight feature is like, we just basically do this kind of use case explanation of what they're building. When I communicate with these people, they send me an email or maybe we do a loom or something, but if, if it's an email form, what they describe to me is like, you know, four pages long and it's like I'm using, you know, field X with these layers of conditional logic to automate sending this to here.
Maybe, you know, OpenAI pops up with the process and then it might even send the data to somewhere else through an integration, which then goes to [00:12:00] make.com to further automate it. And you're like, looking at all this and I'm just thinking to myself like, how. Am I gonna take that and put it into a natural language prompt and make that into a form with that actually working in a way that's feasible.
And I feel like just too many of our customers are these agencies that rely so heavily on like sturdy. You know, clear features when they're building forms that right now we can't, you know, intercept that layer and make that process, uh, too much easier while it still remains accurate and something that you can kind of fall back on with secure, right, with a secure mindset.
So that is to say, um, there is, there's a lot of ways they're using it. I feel like it's still has to do with primarily just the, the data that's coming through these forms. Sometimes it happens. After the data is submitted, sometimes it's happening, you know, looking in aggregate it forms submissions and using AI to interact with that.
Um, but it's a bit all over the place right now.
Matt: Yeah, I mean, I, I, there's one of the things that about AI that I. It is. That's just constantly on my mind. Um, and [00:13:00] this is just from like a general broad perspective of the space. I love. I'd love to hear feedback from anybody listening about this. Um, you can just shoot me an email, mad gravity forms.com.
I just saw a tweet this morning about, uh, open ai. Uh, well, lemme just read the tweet. So, uh, granola, getting Sherlocked by OpenAI Granola being a software as a service on the heels of anthropic throttling windsurf access to Claude four Anthropic Company behind Cloud four. If you don't know this, windsurf is a coating tool, uh, for developers.
At some point, model providers are gonna need to decide if they want to be stable platforms or complete or compete for every vertical platform, risk has never been higher. Yeah, I mean, to. To your question earlier at the start of this, uh, segment is like, what does AI mean for form building? Well, that you could say like, well, I mean, everybody's just gonna have an AI bot.
You won't need forms. What's a contact form anymore when you can just chat with, uh, a chat bot [00:14:00] to get, you know, to send you this like proposal or to contact them about some like location that they need to visit or whatever. Uh, sure that can happen. The problem is, is like, how good. And how complete are those solutions gonna be?
Even the solutions in our space right now where you can, uh, and amongst our competitors and, and maybe people building stuff for gravity forms, it's like, okay, I can build forms with ai, but then what, like, what's the next thing that is, is, is going to happen? And all of that is to say is like, we're, I think we're just way too early on to even make those assumptions or predictions.
Totally. 'cause these, these. My biggest thing with with AI right now is everyone's saying with certainty that. There's this whole group of people that are losing, they're gonna lose their jobs. Or like code is like, plugins are gonna go away because, because of ai, you can't say that with [00:15:00] certainty because of how fa like how early on we still are, how fast it moves every day.
Mm-hmm. And by the way, these big companies like ai, like Anthropic, like Google and Microsoft and Apple, et cetera, et cetera. They are still like competing with each other that they haven't even figured out what they're offering yet. Right? And like that, this tweet goes, this, this expost goes to, to show you like Claude, uh, throttling windsurf.
Whoa, whoa, whoa. I thought. Uh, the whole cool thing about AI was CPS and like connecting to each other and, uh, you know, like this, this, uh, utopian world of like, AI can start communicating with AI and then solving all these problems. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Until they go, we're not making any money from this. Let's throttle that connection.
And crazy, you know. And now we're just, we're just back in the same boat we were with APIs. That's my opinion. You know, we're back in the [00:16:00] same boat with APIs. It's like, look at all this access to data. You have Twitter once said, right? And then at once they get to critical mass, they were like, oh yeah, we're gonna shut that API off now.
And now it's $10,000 a month. Like, what? Wait, what happened? Yeah. You know? And. And CPS are only the same thing, in my opinion, with a glorified AI wrapper, everyone's like, mcps are the future. Look how amazing it is. My AI can talk to this MCP wrapper, which can then talk to 18 different services. Yeah, if those services are in the MCP.
And they allow that connection to happen because it's just another way to tax the flow of data. Yeah. Get off my soapbox now Cole, because you struck chord with that, but that like we're so early on that there's no certainty in my opinion.
Cole: Yeah. Yeah. I think a lot of what you're saying is really interesting, especially in the context of rappers and these tools that again, are like kind of just integrated on top of something.
I remember reading something recently that was suggesting that. [00:17:00] While they thought like a lot of the, I wanna say, you know, stability was being in the, uh, fundamental model layer. So, you know, being in something like open ai, I think it was deep seek that came out, you know, abruptly and really switched things up.
And then people started kind of getting freaked out, you know, and the suggestion was that it was actually safer to be in the wrapper layer of these. And so building on top of the model is actually a safer move as well. But then you're seeing how much, uh, volatility there is between these. And it does kind of beg the question, like, is it just as smart to work in that case?
Because, uh, it can be, yeah, it can be pretty scary when things like that happen. So like another thing that I'm thinking about in the context of this is with all these companies, especially in the WordPress space that are. Shipping features that rely on these models in some way. I think they're doing it really quickly with, again, the idea of it just being like this value add that might seem like it's gonna be super helpful, but then in a lot of cases it's not always super helpful.
Yeah, and I was, I was reading something, [00:18:00] uh, recently and I, it was a study that was done and I don't think the sample size was. Like overwhelmingly large. I think it was like between two and 10,000 people or something, which is quite a large variance. But regardless, um, the, the study was suggesting that basically all these people, I think it was around 80% of people were saying that they don't want to see these companies shipping features that are AI friendly haphazardly.
So like, people are like, we'd prefer if you just didn't put anything out if it's not gonna work and be trustable. Right? And so this comes back to this idea of, uh, you know, when we're looking at AI and how we can implement it, it's like. We, our customers are. Customers that have customers that they, you know, work for, and that, that those customers rely on them.
So they, you know, by doubling down, they need to rely on us. And so we really can't just step in there and start throwing things around because we think it's a value added. It's like they have to be able to rely on exactly what we're putting out and we need, uh, more sturdy ground to be able to do that productively, I think.
Matt: Yeah, WordPress has finally. [00:19:00] Well, I say has finally but recently announced they, they're, they have an AI team for wordpress.org, um, led by just four individuals. And, um, I'll link that up, uh, in the show notes. So, you know, WordPress, the software, uh, if you follow closely what WordPress is doing, wordpress.org and the open source side of WordPress, um, they're.
I guess full steam ahead on, on investing in in AI and how that's gonna operate with WordPress. Just two things that come to mind for me for Gravity Forms in WordPress is, and I think we might have talked about this on our last episode that you and I did like. I, I don't know. I've been building stuff with ai, just, just like same, same thing, same as I was when you and I chatted last time.
And what I found is oftentimes, uh, or what I hope will happen is oftentimes people will start building all this stuff themselves. Like maybe they're building forms the themselves with ai. And they get to this point where it's frustrated, it's hallucinating, it's, you know, [00:20:00] now you have to maintain the code and think of new features.
Well, you should have just bought gravity forms to begin with, right? Like that $59, you know, was way better trade than the, you know, 23 hours it took you to make a form, uh, with clawed or bolt or whatever. Um, so I'm hoping that what this does is kind of prove to people. A stable platform like WordPress, like gravity forms just makes sense now, uh, because it's there, it exists and you can just take it off the shelf and it is infinitely faster.
I don't care how, how fast your inference is with Claude and Chad CPT, it's already done. It's doesn't get any faster than having a complete content management system and form building system right off the shelf. And what this has. Started to make me think about is when you look at AI platforms, let's say like Rept.
Or [00:21:00] backend. Uh, I dunno if you've ever messed around with super base before, which is like a, a database platform. Amazon has their offering. There's this component that I think, like when I look at it from the business level, this is getting deep in the weeds here, but stick with us folks. Continue. This is inside baseball.
I think like the, the sticking point for these platforms, whether it's AWS rep lit, um, superb base and there's dozens of others, is the user management system. Are built into these things because it's like, Hey, go build anything you want with ai. Uh, but don't do that. User authentication stuff, because that's security.
Those are passwords. You don't wanna mess with that side of it. You, you come to our platform, like super base. We have a whole user authentication system, password changing, uh, links, emails, uh, obviously user authentication with, um, you know, single sign on, like all this stuff. And that's the sticky part. Of these businesses come build anything except for that user [00:22:00] authentication system that you don't wanna mess with, because that's the hard part.
Well, guess what? WordPress has user authentication built into it for free right off of the shelf, and it's open source, and you can build whatever you want around it and have this user authentication system that you never have to worry about migrating. So if you were on superb base and you're like, God, I'm done with superb base, I wanna move.
Now you have to move all of your users of this app that you've built to some other system. Fingers crossed that you can do that easily. Or you just say, ah, I'll stay here and bite the bullet of whatever I have to deal with. So I think that WordPress is in a particular advantage around the user authentication system.
Um. Because if we can get WordPress to a point where you can kind of build anything around WordPress, now you can store those users anywhere. You can host WordPress, which is a real sticky point for a lot of these, these services. Um, and then Gravity Forms acts as. [00:23:00] Well, you can, you can do user registration authentication with, um, with Gravity Forms.
You can set up Gravity forms, rest API, you have, uh, populate anything from your team that can get data from all these other sources. And now Gravity Forms acts as almost like this, this router of data. Like we're not talking about contact forms anymore. We're talking about like, I have built a system. With user authentication and I can route data around.
You can have ra uh, data come into gravity forms through the API and trigger all kinds of different things. You can have data go out from gravity forms and do all kinds of different things. So we're in a. I think we're in a good place. It's just there's a lot of stuff happening right now. Yeah. And all of this is to say is like I am, uh, real hopeful for the future of, of WordPress and of course gravity forms because I think once people realize like that stability of open source sprinkled [00:24:00] on some AI stuff that the team is working on.
I think we're in a good place. Yeah. There's a lot to throw at you, but that's, that's, that's what's on my mind.
Cole: Hundred percent. I'd like to dial into that a bit just because I think your perspective's really interesting in the sense that we're talking about WordPress as a whole and how it can compare.
And then for us in our kind of, I wanna say our little corner of the internet, but you know, obviously we. We produce, uh, products around gravity forms. And so gravity forms becomes that second layer that we're looking at primarily when we try and market our own products. And so in the same way that WordPress might be able to help specifically with, you know, user authentication or something like that, for us, we're looking at gravity forms as a platform.
Like that's kind of like the, the one pitch that we try and pu push whenever we're talking about what our products can do. We kind of interweave within that platform in, in a dozen different ways. You know, whether it's. Through integrations or just feature add-ons or AI or things like that. But nonetheless, the kind of angle that we're looking at, you know, focusing on, I think throughout this year is Gravity forms as a [00:25:00] platform, even as a database, like looking at different ways that you can manipulate gravity forms, and then with the central understanding that, you know, it has backwards compatibility, security, and accessibility, which are things that these.
A lot of our customers really greatly value as they're building for other people. So I feel like it's a similar opinion. I feel like the future looks good for us. And again, none of this is to say that like, you know, I'm not suggesting a future where we don't want to see AI come into, you know, a step further into that, that process into the application layer or into the workflow of form building itself.
Like I'm by no means, you know, trying to be a dor or, you know, have a perspective that's like, we don't want to see this happen. I'm like the most, when I see people building in our space, then it's. It's, you know, um, let's say like, you know, using natural language to try and build a form. Like, I love to see that I'm the first one to be like, let's tinker with that and see if there's, you know.
Yeah, yeah. Uh, something we can do there. Um, so I'm hopeful for it and I hope that it does come to that level as well. And then, you know, in addition to that, when I think about how it's gonna impact those, those [00:26:00] steps that people take when they're building forms, I'm like, maybe the way that we're picturing how AI is gonna impact form building is like.
Not even remotely similar to what's actually gonna happen. Like we, we consider it like maybe it's gonna, you know, integrate with certain steps, the form building process, but maybe it's more like. The process of collecting information online is about to radically change the next five years. Right? Yeah.
You know, anyway, that's tangential, but, uh, I think we're on the same page there and I'm, I'm still remaining very optimistic for this, for this whole space.
Matt: Yeah. I mean, I think the, uh, well, we said it so I won't, I won't beat that, that dead horse too much. But you know, I think what'll happen is one of those radical changes that you mentioned about, uh, accepting data online might be people.
Actually go back to saying, you know what? I wanna own this data. Like, I want to, I, I wanna own it in terms of like, I wanna make sure that nobody else is like taking this data from me and doing other things with it. Hey, come get your contact chat bot from OpenAI for free. But by the way, all of those chats are used [00:27:00] to, you know, learn and eventually monetize against this platform, you might say.
Yeah, no, I don't, I don't, I don't wanna fall into that. Right. I don't wanna fall. I've seen some reports of, uh, you know, companies with their own content marketing, their own guides and white papers or whatever, be like, yeah, we gotta stop the. The, the AI from learning from this. 'cause now we're losing like, yeah.
You know, not only did Google take from us, now these AI systems are taking from us and doing stuff with our data and our knowledge and, and we're the ones, you know, getting impacted. So there could be a world where people say, yeah, I, I just kind of wanna own my environment and I'll box out the, uh, the AI stuff.
I mean, who knows? And it would be a good thing for us anyway, at least from the, from the gravity forms perspective, a hundred percent. Uh. Cole, we gotta have you back and talk about AI in about six months to see how fast, uh, it has, has adjusted. Anything else happen at Gravity Wizz that you want folks to know about?
Cole: Uh, yeah. So recently, uh, we had mentioned spell book, which was a big undertaking for us. I. Uh, previous to that, uh, we actually put out a [00:28:00] couple new connections. Uh, a lot of them were centered around emails, so we discussed Gravity Connect and how it's about integrating, you know, gravity forms with various services.
But the most recent releases we've done have all been like, weirdly email based, kind of non-intentional. But we did, um, gravity Connect Drip, which is an integration with the Drip platform, gravity Connect, uh, mail Poet, which is obviously the WordPress first, uh, email management system. And then we also put it a, a plugin called GP email Validator.
Coming back to the first two. I think the theme with those is kind of like you're using Gravity forms to collect information about customers and then you can kind of enroll them in the appropriate workflows, um, based on, you know, very unique information that you're collecting through Gravity forms. And then the last, uh, release that we did was email validator, which is all about basically just validating that emails are real.
So with this stack, you're basically able to. You know, ensure that you're getting the right emails, making sure you're not getting fake emails. You know, you can also customize this to a very deep extent. Um, and then from that point, you know, you can send this to various integrations. [00:29:00] So we've been busy, man.
Matt: Yeah. Uh, I like to hear that. A lot of it is around email too. So if you're listening, don't forget, get gravity, SNTP to. Send those emails around gravity. SMTP is a great solution to, uh, send all these important transactional emails. User registration, as we were mentioning, um, password resets, and of course all of the, uh, data that's being sent, uh, from all of the great tools at Gravity whiz gravity wizz.com.
Call anywhere else you want folks to go to, say thanks,
Cole: gravity woods.com is perfect.
Matt: That's it for today's episode. If you could do one more thing for me today, share this episode on social media. Your favorite Facebook group or Discord channel spread the word about this podcast. It really helps. If you haven't added breakdown to your favorite podcast app, point your browser to gravity forms.com/breakdown and [00:30:00] click the icon of your app.
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