Breakdown - A Gravity Forms Podcast

He gravity formers.

It's Thursday, May 9th.

Not a Monday.

How about that?

Can you believe these companies are
still using print media to sell software?

And what else do you get when you buy
a gravity forms, license coming up?

It's breakdown.

Uh, gravity forms, podcast.

is proud to be one of the longest standing
commercial plugins in the WordPress space.

We've built up a solid reputation over
the last 15 years, not only providing a

great solution for the customers we serve,
but also cultivating the largest third

party ecosystem for any other form plugin.

It's not just our team's hard work
and dedication, but also a tip

of the cap to our customers who
have supported us over the years.

Thank you.

We know there's a lot of
other choices for you.

We've even highlighted some of
the free contact form plugins on

our blog comparing our entry level
plan to what's offered for free.

Having recently reviewed that write
up, it had me thinking about some other

benefits that didn't make the article.

Let's dive into some of those right now.

Your own business reputation.

If you're a freelancer or agency
owner, the last thing you want is to

be on the hook for problematic plugins
in your client's WordPress website.

They're paying you to be
the professional, after all.

I see this in the page builder space.

A new page builder tool enters the market
that has more features, 12 more add

ons, it's cheaper, so users flock to it.

I like saving a buck and getting
more for my dollar, too, but the

unknowns greatly outweigh reliability.

Just because something is
cheaper or has more stuff

doesn't make it a better product.

Here's a quote from Derek Ripp, one
of our customers, from 512designlab.

com, quote, As a long time user of
Gravity Forms, 10 plus years, I think

it's important to note that Gravity
Forms is more than just a solution for

creating forms that people can fill out.

It's also a way for non technical users
to interact with the database and manage

data in a way they couldn't before.

Yes, this requires advanced
setup, but it's now possible

to allow admins, managers, etc.

to do things like manage users and
post types or any other data in the

database without needing to access
the WordPress dashboard, and thereby

reducing the risk of accidental
changes happening via the dashboard.

As a developer, being able to develop
fine grained controls for users to manage

specific data has been a game changer.

Thanks for that testimonial, Derek.

And the point is Gravity Forms hasn't
worked hard on refining a product

just for speed, but for reliability
with a support team you can depend on.

There's also, there's the old startup
adage, quote, move fast and break

stuff, which is cool when you're
building something for yourself, but

when your client is relying on you,
especially if you've sold them a.

care plan for your services, taking a
chance isn't at the top of your list.

There's the whole human aspect that
gets reinvested into reputation as well.

The WordPress community has come to
know what we stand for, and it's not

just our t shirts when it comes to
delivering a product and support.

We're first on agencies lists when it
comes to building out client sites,

just like you heard from Derek, not
just from the extensibility, but

But with the level of support and
understanding an agency requires, dig

deeper into the fabric of gravity forms.

It's not just our product that has
stood the test of time, but our

support and engineering crews have
all been there just as long as well.

It would be rare to stump them or
to find gravity forms being used in

a project they haven't seen before.

This helps you sleep better at night.

As a business owner,

Gravity forms meets gravity.

SMTP.

Again, not many WordPress plugin
businesses can say they've

been doing this for 15 years.

Because our customers have supported
us for this long, while we avoided

some of the bad practices of
scammy discounts we've seen in the

industry, we're a healthy company.

That means we can reinvest, which
we've done with our purchase of

Gravity Flow recently, and now our
newly launched Gravity SMTP plugin.

A new product that enhances your
experience with Gravity Forms.

And while it's still early days, and you
might be thinking, why do I need another

plugin that helps with delivering email?

Delivering contact forms, user
registrations, or donation

receipts are crucial to a website,
probably even your customer.

Getting a plugin that helps you do
that from a team you already trust

is just another potential weak
link in your customer service that

our team helps augment for you.

And we look to expand these products in
the future, giving you even more value.

Back to the scammy sales
tactics for a moment.

When you look at our competition
and do the math, especially as an

agency with dozens, if not hundreds
of clients running Gravity Forms, Our

pricing structure is a fantastic value.

Free is great until it's not.

Just to put a bow on the Gravity Forms
package, we love our customers, we

love our work, and we love solving how
users interact with WordPress websites.

While we wish we could give Gravity
Forms away for free, we've learned

that having a sustainable business
model is absolutely crucial in the

WordPress and open source world.

And by all means, if Gravity Forms
doesn't fit your particular needs or

costs are too high for your current phase
in website building, That's okay, too.

We do recommend free alternatives.

I implore you to dive deep into our
add ons, certified add ons and third

party add ons, to see if we can help
you solve your next big client project.

From payment forms to Zapier integrations
and everything in between, I'm willing

to bet that a license from us is much
more valuable than coding it yourself

or duct taping together a free solution.

If you have any questions about
Gravity Forms before you buy it, even

pitch me a project you're working
on, email me, matt at gravityforms.

com.

Now it's time to talk to Dave
Smith from Gravity Whiz on how his

team is using playing cards and
postcards to delight his customers.

Dave: I am the founder and product
manager at gravity whiz, the

makers of gravity perks, gravity
shop, and soon gravity connect.

Matt: I love how you laugh
about the product manager role.

Dave: Yeah,

Matt: I do as too, and I hear it.

Dave: You just kind of lean into
whatever role is the most needed

when you're in a bootstrap company.

Matt: Yeah, what's the latest and
greatest that you guys have shipped?

Dave: I think the coolest thing we've
done recently, um, is entry blocks.

That's the one I'm most excited about.

But the latest that we've just launched
is Feedforge, which is our newest.

Plug in, it's free and it allows
you to bulk process feeds.

It's super useful when you have
a bunch of existing entries.

You've just set up this new feed based
add on which gravity forms has a ton.

and you want to do something
with that existing data.

And so this will let you go in,
select all those entries and then

process the feed that you just
configured for those existing entries.

So think about sending data to a CRM.

creating or updating users with like
user registration add on, or in our

case sending that data into Google
sheets with our GP Google sheets plugin.

Matt: So I invited you on today,
obviously not just to go through your

product shipping prowess, but you
and a few other certified developers

are going down the path or have been
down the path of product shipping.

You know, I got what I'm calling
traditional print marketing.

You have a set of playing cards coming.

You have a postcards, which you've
been sending to customers for a while.

And then I'll be doing an interview
with Zach Katz from gravity kit, talking

about his new printed material that he
emailed or that he mails to customers.

Let's talk about these
playing cards first.

What's the idea behind them?

It's just, just a, like a giveaway
thing or, or playing cards here to stay.

Dave: they're definitely something that we
want to give away, but they're also here

to stay in the sense that, you know, we
definitely are excited to iterate on it.

So this is, we've been teasing
calling these these are our

first edition playing cards.

Um, but yeah, it kind of originated.

We were on our first
company retreat last year.

And one of the things that we ended
almost every night together doing was

just playing cards in the hotel lobby.

And it was just such like a
bonding and fun experience.

And you know, one of the guys was
like, Hey, we should have, you

know, a custom playing card deck
with all of our own products on it.

And it was just like, yeah,
that would be a lot of fun.

And I was like, and I bet you
customers would really enjoy that too.

And so, yeah, that was kind of
like the birth of that idea.

And we came back, we spent a
few months, we, we work with

a design agency called fixal.

They helped us with our
new website as well.

And they really just helped
us bring this idea to life.

And yeah, they're, they're awesome.

Matt: Yeah, the new website fantastic,
by the way, I don't, I don't think I've

had you back on the show since that
launched, but obviously links will be

in the show notes, check that out came
out really good merch stores, right?

I, I, listen, you are an
enterprising individual.

I know it just doesn't
end at playing cards.

Are we going to have merch
stores, hats, t shirts?

Do we already have a merch store?

I don't know.

Do you have a merch store?

Dave: No, we, we've always been kind
of wary of going down that, that road.

There's something about having
these things that are almost earned.

If you know what I mean?

Like where it's like, Hey, you
can't just buy into the club.

Like you gotta be a customer.

You gotta.

Come in and get these things the old
fashioned way by by putting in the

time we do raffles all the time for
we'll ask just in the last weekly when

I we actually announced these playing
cards, we just asked a question.

It was just a Hey, we want your feedback.

Answer the question and we're
going to select five people

and send them a playing card.

And we do the same
thing with our t shirts.

Um, yeah, just this idea of we want
to interact with you kind of human

to human versus you going to our
store and buying it again, no shade

on people who have merch stores.

I definitely know a lot of customers
almost prefer that because they're

like, Hey, I don't want to, I
don't want to interact with you.

I just want to go and buy the

Matt: Yeah.

Sometimes they want, yeah, they
want to rep the brand or whatever.

Yeah.

Dave: 100%.

Matt: Yeah, there's a, it's, there's
this restaurant, well it's now, now

it's a restaurant, but it used to be
just a like gift shop kind of place.

Like they just sold like different stuff
locally from, you know, different people

who made different things in, in the area.

And then they added on a
little restaurant on the back.

Then that restaurant got really popular.

Then they expanded that restaurant
and then they added like another

restaurant, like a different
theme attached to this place.

And we, my wife and I, and the kids went.

They're there to eat the other day and
they've since gotten rid of the gift shop.

It's not even part of the, it's
not, you don't even, you go, you

don't go to their shop anymore.

It's just an event space and a restaurant.

So like these wacky ideas can
just start to evolve and literally

change your whole business.

Dave: That's awesome.

Matt: you were telling me before
we hit record that the, another

piece of traditional media you send
out our, our thank you postcards.

What's the story behind that?

Dave: Yeah.

So we have a, this idea a long time ago
where we were thinking we just wanted

to show some sort of like appreciation.

For our customers and, you know,
sending an email saying, thank you.

It just feels kind of weak.

Just one more thing in someone's inbox.

Um, there is a certain pleasure in
receiving something in your mailbox.

so, yeah, we have these, you know,
postcards and they, they're actually

stickers, so the front of it, you can just
peel off the wizard and you can put him

on your, you know, whatever you want to
put them on, but he's in these different

scenes and every year we update it.

And we send those out for, for renewals.

So it's just like a kind of
Hey, like we appreciate you.

Thank you.

Just a heads up also your, your
renewals coming up, but we hope

you enjoy the stickers either way.

Matt: Dave Smith always changing
the way we think about gravity forms

we'll see you on the next round when
you launch your, your next innovative

add on or product best place folks
can find you is what website?

Dave: com number one
place to come and get me.=

I can't wait to get my hands on
some Gravity Whiz playing cards too.

Next, let's talk to Zach Katz from
Gravity Kit about get this a printed

newsletter he mails to your house.

Get your own
copy@gravitykit.com slash inc.

Here's Zach.

Matt: You're publishing something,
it's not a blog post, it's not a

podcast, it's not a YouTube video, it's
a piece of paper that ends up in my

literal inbox in the side of my house.

It's called ink.

Why did you start

Zack: It is.

Yeah.

We have a newsletter, Matt, and one
that is not as easy to make as you type

something into a form and you click send.

we decided that one of the things we
want to do in this era of marketing,

with AI, with all these chat
bots, with, just all these things.

Automated systems that are trying to
connect to customers that there was, we,

we lacked a really good way to connect to
people in a personal level, on a personal

level, that could scale still, but
something that was tactile, something that

had let people experience gravity kit.

in a different way than they
experience other brands.

And, I love checking the mail.

I check the mail every day.

I have a long driveway.

It's often my only time I get
outside is I go put on my shoes.

I go down to the mailbox.

I open the mail.

And, and when there's something good
in there, anything good, anything,

that's not just something that I want
to throw away immediate or recycle

immediately, I get really excited.

And so I wanted to bring that
excitement to the gravity kit,

customer base, to anybody who wants
to sign up for our newsletter.

Of receiving something that somebody
put attention into that was, that was

about something that I cared about.

And, so Casey and I, Casey marketing
coordinator at gravity kit.

And I, decided that we were going
to put together a print newsletter.

We call it gravity kit, Inc.

And.

You know, there's so much of our lives
that we have so much information on a

feed, and on, on X, on Facebook, wherever,
on Mastodon, and you scroll, and you

see an interesting link, and it's ah, I
don't feel like reading that right now,

but when I receive a print magazine, or
a print newsletter, and I see that there

are five articles I can read, and they're
summarized in a couple paragraphs, Yeah.

that somebody has taken the time
to curate this information for

me, summarize it, think that I
might actually want to read it.

It's such a different experience
where I, I take it back to my

kitchen, I sit down at the table,
I, I crack it open and I read.

And I learned something new
that I probably would have

scrolled by on Twitter.

And, so now if an example that we
have in the print newsletter for,

for Inc, is an article about a
spot the station finder for finding

the international space station.

Station in the sky.

And there's a website where
you can go to do that.

And I scrolled past that on hacker news.

When I saw it come up there, I
scrolled past it on scitech daily.

When I saw it there, I scrolled past it
so many times and then I finally read it.

And I was like, Oh, that's neat.

I should have read that earlier.

So we included that in
the, in the newsletter and.

We have a QR code in our print newsletter.

So it's not like it's siloed and people
can't access the full article, but it's

a slow form of media that I appreciate.

I really enjoy when I receive,
and I want to, I hope that people

who receive it also enjoy it.

Matt: Don't judge me by this statement,
but I dined at Chili's the other night.

And there's a certain, experience of,
you know, being in the traditional

world, let's say going to a restaurant,
and with Chili's, one of the exciting,

delightful things, where they bring
in the digital world, is that I don't

have to wait for the waitress to pay.

They have these things right on the
counter, right on the table, where you

just swipe your credit card and go.

And I was like, this is amazing.

I, I might even come back to this place
just because of this thing right here.

I don't have to wait, I can check out.

I like the inverse in such a heavy
digital world that you and I live in.

I love what I'll call traditional
media, but you might call

a product, a publication,
something that you are crafting.

I love this experience into the digital
world for all the reasons you kind of just

stated, because the customers are just
like, ah, just another, just another email

from Zach, just another podcast from Zach.

Oh, what's this?

A piece of paper, a tactile thing.

I can touch, feel, and read, and
I don't need to be at my computer.

Fantastic.

You know, fantastic.

And I love this.

People should be spending money on
radio heads and billboards again.

I mean, give people a different
experience because this is

how you really make a mark.

Was there anything that you
left on the cutting room floor

that was a different idea?

We'll get back to ink, but did,
did you guys bring up other ideas

like posters or, I don't know, any
other kind of like printed material

or was, hey, this, this kind of,
printed guide is pretty cool for us.

Zack: so we did, we do
have some other ideas.

they're not on the cutting room floor.

I'm sure there are some that I'm not
remembering, but, we do, for example,

have a calendar, a marketing calendar
that people can subscribe to and

get special alerts and notices about
flash swag giveaways if they subscribe

to a Google calendar that we have.

and that is partly a
marketing exercise where.

What is not oversaturated currently,
marketing through calendars.

And that's kind of an interesting idea
of instead of emailing about a flash

sale, how about you have a flash sale
come up in somebody's subscription

to your calendar, by a calendar.

So that's, that's another idea,
but mostly we were trying to find.

We used to connect to people
on an emotional level and ink

really achieved that the best.

what do people really love and care about?

And well, their families,
are, are part of that.

And so we came up with having a
game section in the newsletter

where there's a connect the dots.

And there's a word scramble
so that, okay, if the kids

enjoy it, that's, that's great.

But if it takes some burden off of
parents and the parents can give the

newsletter to a child after they read it
and say, Hey, play with this for a bit.

And it gives the parents.

Three minutes of calm and quiet.

That is a gift from gravity
kit to our customer base.

so that kind of experience of
building connections through other

means and not just marketing, is
something we wanted to accomplish.

And I feel like through the stories that
we feature in ink, we want to feature.

Success stories, that our customers
have and opportunities for.

We have a lot of non profit customers
for Gravity Kit, and so we, we're

featuring Tony Jenkins this, this,
edition with, Peace Education

and, the Peace Education campaign.

And so we have a featured article
about Tony Jenkins and a QR code

where people could donate directly
to support his campaign for peace.

And that sort of thing might not
get attention in your inbox, but it

might get attention in your mailbox.

Matt: Yeah.

That's fantastic.

gravity kit.

com slash Inc.

I N K free for customers
paid for non customers

Zack: Free for everybody,

Matt: for everybody.

You're a gracious man

Zack: In the U.

Matt: in the U S okay.

Stipulation in the U S

Zack: Translation's a little harder,
when it comes to print newsletters,

like internationalization and
postage and I'm not sure it's gonna

go very international, though it
might end up going to Canada at some

Matt: very cool.

Very cool.

Gravity kit.

com slash Inc.