Breakdown - A Gravity Forms Podcast

[00:00:00] Matt: Hey Izzy, welcome to, the Breakdown Podcast.

[00:00:02] Isabel: Hey there, how are you doing today?

[00:00:05] Matt: Oh, I am exhausted from a week of WordCamp and we're gonna talk about that, in a moment. But this is the first time that you've been on the new show. You're on the old Breakdown show. for folks who don't know who you are, who are you and what do you do on the Gravity Forms team?

[00:00:23] Isabel: Yes. So, I'm, my name's Isabel Doran. I'm currently a junior software engineer here over on the product team and the focus on the integrations crew. but I did do a couple of internships starting last June. I spent some time as a quality assurance engineer, just a couple months and then a little bit of time over on our marketing team in which I helped build up our TikTok account.

[00:00:47] Isabel: So now in our, Free time, we have some 10% projects where if we have a little less work to do during our sprints, we can pick up some extra stuff. that's when I spend my time on the TikTok. So, little Jack of all trades here. Or Jane of all trades.

[00:01:02] Matt: There were 2000 ish people at WordCamp US and everyone came up to you and was like, God, I love the tick tock. you, you do a fantastic job as a long form content creator. I just can't do it. I can't do it. And I, and I appreciate all your efforts and all the hard work that you put into it. It's, it's, it's a craft.

[00:01:23] Matt: that you have. so thank you and we'll insert the, the applause effect here.

[00:01:28] Isabel: Oh, yes. Well, thank you very much. Yeah, I don't know if it's just the way my brain works, or maybe what I've been able to take in, but the way that you're able to spread the content, I'm able to kind of chop it down a little bit, so we hit all our bases, for sure.

[00:01:42] Matt: So WordCamp US was in National Harbor, Maryland, just outside of DC in this, junction point of DC, Maryland, and Virginia. This first time that I was down there. the venue was amazing. the, the sheer size of it was the biggest I've ever seen for a WordCamp. you went to WordCamp Asia and EU in Athens, were those comparable in size or was one bigger than the other?

[00:02:11] Isabel: well, so I think the venue wise, this was the biggest venue we've gone to, and it definitely, drew a bigger crowd. but both were pretty big, I'd say. WordCamp Asia was a really fun turnout and huge turnout since it was the first one, that they had ever put out. So, honestly, there was a wonderful crowd there.

[00:02:31] Isabel: And EU, I think it was maybe a bit of a smaller venue, just. And I'm sure we'll chat about that more throughout, but it was all kind of in one hub space between the rooms feeding into the booths, so it felt a little bit smaller and more community there, but still, again, really good turnout.

[00:02:46] Matt: So I saw some folks saying like they were getting lost in, the, at the, at the hotel, because of how big it was. Plus it was awkwardly... It was an awkward layout, right? There were all the sessions, all the speaking sessions [00:03:00] happened like two stories up or at least two flights of, of elevator rides up or, escalator rides up.

[00:03:06] Matt: And then where we were the sponsor area, also like the cafeteria area, was down and around the corner. So you felt like this little bit of separation, which was weird, but. It still was a pretty electric vibe in the vendor area. at least on day one, I noticed it got a little quiet on day two as it, as it generally does, but it was awesome to like, see everybody.

[00:03:27] Matt: It was the first event WordCamp event that I've been back to. I've been going then. To them now for over a decade. So this was a fantastic,new ish experience for me. So I was excited to be back. although it was just a little awkward, unfortunately I didn't get to any of the speaking,panels, which I, I wanted to, this was the first time I've had to work at a word camp.

[00:03:48] Matt: not that we really had to work, that hard, but it was great to just be there answering questions with the customers. Did you get to any of the speaking, table round tables,

[00:03:56] Isabel: yeah, no, so similar for me, just I think because of the layout and it was relatively busy at the booth and, I, that's my main job between getting content, just kind of being there, to chat with everybody. I wasn't able to get to any talks, but I was happy to see, at least looking at the schedule, there was a lot of focus on accessibility, which is something that we definitely pride ourselves on and try and strive forward, with each of our iterations.

[00:04:19] Isabel: So, I was happy to see that was a broad talking point.

[00:04:23] Matt: so many t shirts. We're, we're handed out and also carried down. This is also the first time I've been behind the scenes of setting up a booth, a sponsored booth. and this is a smaller one, right? Compared to what, what you all had to build in, in Asia and maybe even Europe. Was this a smaller size booth?

[00:04:41] Isabel: So, so far this year, this was the smallest booth that we had, but we actually had the brought to any of the events, and thankfully we were able to get rid of most of them. if you are traveling into these events, you can usually pick us out because you'll see about three to four big orange duffel bags going through the airport carrying all of these T shirts.

[00:05:05] Isabel: They are our pride possessions out of these events.

[00:05:08] Matt: There was a lot of great, great moments when, you know, some, we, we say that our shirts are the best in the business. I've been saying that now for a couple of episodes because I wanted people to get to the booth and grab them because I know they go pretty fast. but there was that, there was one moment.

[00:05:22] Matt: which sort of reinforced this whole theory of we have the best shirts in the business when one of the visitors came to the booth and he was like, yeah, my wife told me I can't bring any more t shirts home unless they're like high quality or like super soft. I said just, just come with me over here.

[00:05:39] Matt: Come. Come touch this t shirt and as soon as he touched it, he was like, Oh yeah, this is the kind of shirt that I can bring back, to the family. so it's always great if you, even if you're not using gravity forms, , it's great that you're rocking our, our swag because not only is the shirt high quality, but the designs are great.

[00:05:55] Matt: And I love the designs for this year. I think we have two or three different iterations, [00:06:00] right? Unlike the astronaut and the logo and stuff. It was, it was pretty cool.

[00:06:03] Isabel: Yeah, yeah. We have three. I think we did a different one for each event itself, but all kind of in the same breath. But that's always another fun part of getting the shirts, too, is kind of you get the collection of the year of Gravity Form shirts if you're able to attend the events.

[00:06:16] Matt: let's talk about some of the, takeaways. from WordCamp,for me, it was going to be about seeing all my friends that I know in the WordPress space, and reconnecting with them. It's been obviously a very long time since I've been to an in person event, not just because of COVID, but because I, started a family about seven ish years ago, and life has been pretty crazy, so, but it was great to reconnect with everyone.

[00:06:44] Matt: Not enough time, even though I got in on Monday, it was sort of like a half vacation, half work, thing for me, not enough time to, to see everyone. in fact, in another podcast that I do, two of the guests that are going to be on the show next week were there and we didn't even get to, to meet in person.

[00:07:02] Matt: friends, friends of mine, I didn't even see, that. I've known for years. I didn't even see them, but they were there. So those are some, unfortunate things. But, I had a great time, reconnecting with everyone that I know. and just having a great time. And of course, meeting the Gravity Forms team.

[00:07:17] Matt: we all met for the first time. most of, most of you, of course. I know some of the members on the team. but we all met for the first time in the elevator, like, as I was coming down to go down to see everyone open up, and Travis, Mike, Megan, Gosha, all were like coming into the elevator at the same time, so it was like, this, this is a bad way of framing it, but it was like this forced entry of like, hey, we have to meet each other, we're stuck in this, elevator with each other, so that was great.

[00:07:45] Matt: Do you have any fun takeaways from the event?

[00:07:47] Isabel: I mean, similar in the sense that I love being able to hear all the use cases and, Oh, we've used your product for so many years and this is how we're using it on our site. It's always, just, Builds the ego in the sense of we're doing what we should be and putting out a great product. But also I love being able to meet with the team since we are remote and we have so many calls of just seeing each other in these little zoom boxes, being able to go to the dinners and spend the time in the booth and Catch up at breakfast with the team.

[00:08:16] Isabel: It really makes a difference. And even being able to get some time with our certified developers, it makes a difference to be able to see what their outlook is, their goals going forward with their products, how we can all integrate better together to really just build up this gravity ecosystem we have here.

[00:08:32] Isabel: So just that face to face time.

[00:08:34] Matt: Yeah, I want to talk about the certified developers in a second. Did you have a favorite place that you ate? I'll start with mine. It was one that I think the majority of Gravity Form team members voted down. I actually enjoyed the breakfast at the diner. I forget the name of it. but the first day we went to it, it was fantastic.

[00:08:54] Matt: But I don't think you all liked it when you went. Did you have a favorite dinner spot when you were there?

[00:08:59] Isabel: Yeah, no, [00:09:00] so unfortunately, I wasn't able to get to the breakfast. I got in a little later on the Thursday. One of my favorite spots, it was Grace's Mandarin. We went there, just a small team dinner, on Saturday, I believe it was? No, Friday, right before the pride party. But it was yummy, and thankfully we had asked, Oh, can we have a nice window spot?

[00:09:21] Isabel: The sunset was coming down and they accommodated greatly, and we had a nice round table overlooking the water. So, couldn't have been better.

[00:09:28] Matt: Yeah, it was a pretty cool spot. It almost feels like for those who have never been, to National Harbor, again, this is the first time that I went to it. It was almost like a, it almost felt like a Hollywood set. Like it just felt like it was this, cause I, I drove down and I drove down through sort of like the, where GPS took me through the back roads and it was all the country and farm, like some really nice houses back there and such.

[00:09:51] Matt: I expected it to be more built up and then you, you, you arrived at, National Harbor and it almost felt like, wait, where did this city come from? It was sort of separate from everything else right on the water. and it was almost like, here's these three massive hotels. And then here's all the restaurants that support these hotels with a Ferris wheel.

[00:10:09] Isabel: yeah.

[00:10:10] Matt: So like go nuts, have fun. It was pretty cool. And I, and I could tell there was a lot of people that came in and out. and used it as like a, a hangout spot, on the weekend, which, which is cool. It's similar to like where Newport, Rhode Island is to me. I feel like it's that same sort of tourist attraction.

[00:10:26] Matt: People come in, weather's great, you're on the water. Probably in the wintertime, no one's going there.

[00:10:33] Isabel: Yeah, that's what I was thinking. It seemed like a fun summer hangout spot. Even one day, I think it was Saturday, we went to go get some lunch and they had outside the Ferris Wheel a kettle corn and lemonade stand, a bunch of just kind of fair esque merchandise. So it seems like a really fun spot to hang out and it was cool for us to be able to venture through, have some spots to eat at and also the venue itself felt like a mini Disneyland between the light show and little souvenir stores, so.

[00:11:01] Isabel: They did well for picking that, that spot, I think.

[00:11:04] Matt: Let's talk about our certified developers. This was the first time that I had the chance to meet most of them in person. let's just, we've talked about it before on the podcast. I've had them on as guests before. Zach Katz was the last certified developer to be on. but these folks are folks who are.

[00:11:22] Matt: Are very vested in the success of gravity forms. the obvious back of the napkin math is, is because they're building products for gravity forms and only gravity forms for I think 99% of the, certified developers and they have a real vested interest in the future of gravity forms. We all got together for.

[00:11:39] Matt: Sort of like a social lunch, meet and greet everybody. but then we went back to, one of the hotels, rented a conference room and, and we sort of got to work with AirQuotes, just like really digging deep in, the outlook for Gravity Forms, the company, and then how each of these certified developers No pun intended orbit around [00:12:00] gravity forms, so that they can so they could share what they're working on and how it works with us.

[00:12:05] Matt: Because, literally at the end of the day, they all have sort of features of gravity forms that gravity forms might want to build at some point because customers ask us. But then they really handle. The future edge cases of gravity forms of stuff. That's like super challenging or technical niche almost where they're going to be the best suited to solve these use cases for customers.

[00:12:27] Matt: it's a long way of getting to like, it was great to have this sort of cohesive conversation. About how we're all working towards a better Gravity Forms future Did you have any takeaways from that meeting? I know you were jotting down some notes But did you have anything that you know you'd want to share with the audience that said hey this this was a great meeting with The CDs or anything that you look forward to from like a product or feature standpoint?

[00:12:52] Isabel: I think there's a few things on, product roadmap that will be good for us to integrate and kind of just diversify of what we keep in house at gravity. But what is also good opportunities for our certified developers to be able to take on and build in their own ecosystems. But really coming out of the meeting and then also seeing it applied throughout the conference.

[00:13:12] Isabel: It was great to have our, Owners and the really founders of Gravity Forms here at the conference with us. We had Carl, Kevin, and Alex, and Carl and Alex were able to join that kind of work session, really get hands in and share ideas one on one directly with the developers. So I think just having those conversations in that open space is what was the best takeaway of our time together to be able to, solidly push ideas and plans forward for both ends of the spectrum.

[00:13:41] Matt: I ran into a couple folks out on the vendor floor that were you know building features for gravity forms, I won't name them or the features that they were looking to build because I think they were sort of still under wraps, but, it was, it was great to have sort of the other CDs there because certified developers, because I just connected them, with them and I, with the certified developers said, Hey, you have this idea.

[00:14:09] Matt: These are our trusted partners. These are the ones that have been doing it for years that work really closely with us. hopefully they can answer some of your questions or at least show you the way. And in fact, some of them were like, Hey, this is an open source world. We're all kind of building the same thing sometimes.

[00:14:24] Matt: And they were like sort of competing with each other. But also that's one of the great things about WordPress and especially the. trickle down into the Gravity Forms ecosystem is everyone wants to help each other, even if you're sort of borderline competing with each other. do you find that strange at all or is that something that, that you've seen for a while now in the WordPress space?

[00:14:45] Matt: I'm always curious, not that you're an outsider, but I feel like there are folks who might come from other software development angles and be like, Wait a minute, you share these ideas with like your competition? That's weird. Like, do you have any thoughts on that?

[00:14:59] Isabel: Well, no, I [00:15:00] think at least the way that, we've been able to set it up with our certified developers. I think it's a really, wholesome sort of experience and the fact that we all just want the betterment and be able to grow and give a great product, but also still be able to expand and kind of have these businesses.

[00:15:14] Isabel: So I think it's a twofold of the fact that once we're open with them, they'll be open with us and we're able to, just develop Better together and I found that too at the booth there were it was nice to Be able to say. Oh, yeah gravity wiz is here gravity kit guys are just over here Even if they didn't have their own booth, we were able to just having them in the conference We were able to again Facilitate and build up the community that we have just being able to point them over and be like hey They're here to chat if you need them

[00:15:44] Matt: One of the things that I was doing in the booth was recording, some testimonials, some feedback from actual customers. still astounding that people come to the booth and they say, I've literally been using this product for 10, 11 years. I don't think many WordPress brands, one, because they're not that old, but two, those that are that old, I just don't hear it or see it as much, as I do in Gravity Forms.

[00:16:10] Matt: Obviously it was one of the things that attracted me to. Work at Gravity Forms as a 10 plus year customer myself. so many people use it. So many people love it. And, that was one of, something that I already knew, but it was just great to hear it in person, as a team member. I'm going to play some of the clips from these testimonials so that you can hear directly.

[00:16:31] Matt: what customers had to say

[00:16:32] Matt: before we wrap up? I just want to talk about the, the giveaway and just give a special shout out to Mike from the team, who is a fantastic game show host, former, Principal at a school has a great projection voice, he had to because, he was corralling many little kids, and he did the same here.

[00:17:44] Matt: let's, I'm just gonna throw up a clip of Mike announcing, one of our giveaways,

[00:17:49] Matt: I should say. [00:18:00] and that was fun to see, the crowd amass in front of the Gravity Forms booth. At one point I was joking, Megan, who's been on the show before was sort of out in the crowd just like chatting with somebody. And then slowly but surely, like, the crowd gathered around her. And she had, she looked up and she was like, what are all these people doing?

[00:18:30] Matt: It's like, oh, it's almost one o'clock. It's time for the, for the giveaway stuff. that was fun. Did we do that same thing? in Asia and in Europe, was it the same sort of vibe when people started showing up?

[00:18:41] Isabel: Oh, yeah, yeah, so, same sort of vibe, always slow, little conger, but then once you get closer to one, you have this whole crowd. Thank you again to Mike, because he really does captivate the group with the loud whistle and his projection. But honestly, one thing I love about even the Gravity Forms users, and everyone that turns out, Even if they don't win, they're celebrating and congratulating those that do win.

[00:19:05] Isabel: So it really is a joyous experience for all, in a small way, that we can say thank you to everybody for their continuous support.

[00:19:11] Matt: I was actually surprised about so many folks who didn't show up because Mike had to go through a whole bunch of names for each giveaway, which was the license for gravity forms, gravity flow, the Lego set, which is still pretty cool. And then of course the VR headset. And, I was like, wow, man, if you submitted this, you should be here.

[00:19:31] Isabel: Yeah, right?

[00:19:32] Matt: one o'clock, like you're gonna, you get a chance to win this stuff. And I like it at first when they, when the gentleman who won the VR headset was just kind of like looking at it and holding it. And Mike's like, no, it's, it's really in there. Like we, we really gave, that, VR headset away from you.

[00:19:47] Matt: So, that was fun. I really enjoyed it. I can't wait for the next WordCamp, with Gravity Forms of the team. thanks for hanging out and chatting today, Izzy.

[00:19:55] Isabel: Yeah, no, thanks for having me.